May 2017 - nexa - server-nexa.polito.it

Re: [nexa] "A cashless Europe? The problem is that most people are against it"

by Stefano Quintarelli

Ciao, Forse ciò che ho scritto era equivoco... Non intendo assolutamente che si scambi l'abolizione del cash con una infrastruttura di anonimato protetto. Intendo che l'incremento dei pagamenti elettronici è realtà, e che chi vuole usarli deve avere la possibilità anche di anonimato protetto. Una cosa aggiuntiva, non sostitutiva... Ciao, s. P.s. Riguardo la sede ed i modi del potere, conoscendone adesso abbastanza le esternalità negative ed i limiti implementativi intrinseci, sono affezionato al sistema democratico In data 26 maggio 2017 19:49:23 Enrico Nardelli <nardelli(a)mat.uniroma2.it> ha scritto: > > Stefano > > è vero che "la dimensione immateriale si allarga ad avvolgere praticamente > in toto le nostre relazioni sociali ed economiche" però questa tendenza > deve rimanere una possibilità e non un obbligo. Proprio perché in questo > allargamento della dimensione immateriale si annida un attacco mortale alla > democrazia, con la scusa dell'efficienza e del contrasto al crimine, > > So bene che è perfettamente possibile definire un'infrastruttura ad hoc per > effettuare transazioni economiche o comunicazioni in modo da garantire > l'anonimato. Ho però forti dubbi che chi ha da perdere nel garantire > l'anonimato (ovvero chi ha il potere politico ed economico) acconsenta allo > sviluppo e diffusione di un'infrastruttura di questo genere. > > Secondo me è importante essere pragmatici nel capire che i conflitti di > interesse tra "classi" sono fisiologici nella società e ciò che va > assolutamente evitato è che la tecnologia informatica, con la scusa della > sicurezza, sia utilizzata per alterare questi conflitti a vantaggio di chi > ha più potere. > > L'abolizione del contante sarebbe una mossa in questo senso, ripeto - non > perché non sia tecnicamente possibile realizzarla mediante > un'infrastruttura ad hoc che garantisca una moneta elettronica con le > stesse funzioni del contante - ma perché questa possibile infrastruttura > non diventerebbe mai una realtà, per semplici ragioni di potere. Non mi > scandalizzo che chi ha il potere lo usi per mantenerlo ed allargarlo, ma > non voglio contribuire al mio diventare schiavo. > > Truffe, riciclo e ricatti avvenivano anche prima dell'avvento di Internet e > venivano contrastati. E se adesso li conduci via Internet ovviamente lasci > tracce che possono essere usate per combatterli. > > Ciò che sarebbe mortale per la democrazia sarebbe costringere tutti all'uso > degli strumenti digitali. > > Ciao, Enrico > > > > Il 26/05/2017 11:17, Stefano Quintarelli ha scritto: >> ciao a tutti >> se compro oggi una menorah, non voglio che quella informazione sia scolpita >> nel tempo ed un giorno (Dio non voglia) le mie figlie possano subire delle >> conseguenze negative (ad esempio) >> pero' se truffo o riciclo o ricatto, deve essere possibile risalire a me. >> penso ci siano due esigenze contrapposte che sono appunto il diritto >> all'anonimato ed la possibilità di imputare resposnabilità penali, in >> limiti stabiliti dalla legge. >> man mano che la dimensione immateriale si allarga ad avvolgere praticamente >> in toto le nostre relazioni sociali ed economiche, i modelli tradizionali >> secondo me sono un po' alle corde. >> ci sto riflettendo molto, e sto arrivando alla conclusione che sarebbe >> opportuno un framework ad hoc... >> ciao, s. >> >> >> On 26/05/2017 10:26, Antonio Vetrò wrote: >>> In questo nostro survey abbiamo raccolto evidenza >>> che la blockchain in realtà può garantire solo la pseudo-anonymity >>> >>> http://nexa.polito.it/node/1310 >>> >>> Un caro saluto >>> >>> Antonio >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Antonio Vetrò, Ph.D. >>> Director of Research >>> Nexa Center for Internet and Society >>> DAUIN, Politecnico di Torino >>> https://nexa.polito.it/people/avetro >>> >>> >>>> On 26. May 2017, at 01:19, Giuseppe Attardi <attardi(a)di.unipi.it >>>> <mailto:attardi@di.unipi.it>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 25 mag 2017, at 23:22, Giuseppe Attardi <attardi(a)di.unipi.it >>>>> <mailto:attardi@di.unipi.it>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> L’anonimato si può ottenere con le tecniche di blockchain. >>>>> Comunque sia, cosa c’entra l’anonimato coi poteri totalitari? >>>>> Ci sono norme per proteggere la privacy, che dovrebbero assicurare che >>>>> l’accesso alle informazioni sia consentito. >>>> >>>> Intendevo “non sia consentito”. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>>> Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 16:53:57 +0200 >>>>>> From: Philippe Aigrain <pa(a)laquadrature.net <mailto:pa@laquadrature.net>> >>>>>> To: nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it <mailto:nexa@server-nexa.polito.it> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nexa] "A cashless Europe? The problem is that most >>>>>> people are against it" >>>>>> Message-ID: <f2843c33-a919-abf9-d90b-dddfccc7518e(a)laquadrature.net >>>>>> <mailto:f2843c33-a919-abf9-d90b-dddfccc7518e@laquadrature.net>> >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >>>>>> >>>>>> Apart from the issues mentioned in the article, creating a cashless >>>>>> society would be the ultimate step, after making impossible to >>>>>> communicate and to travel anonymously, leading to a de facto >>>>>> totalitarian regime. >>>>>> >>>>>> In my action in solidarity with young minors refugees, I was able to >>>>>> experience directly how, today, someone who is denied its fundamental >>>>>> rights recognized by law has no chance to ever find a way to challenge >>>>>> this denial if s/he cannot: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. communicate anonymously, i.e. at least have access to a SIM card and >>>>>> the related subscription without providing an ID, >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. travel anonymously in particular by long distance train, i.e. buy a >>>>>> ticket which is anonymous and not connected to an identity >>>>>> >>>>>> 3. get money through solidarity and spend it as cash. >>>>>> >>>>>> The first two conditions are at severe risk. For instance in France one >>>>>> of the 2 companies providing pay mobile phones no longer accept to do it >>>>>> without a proof of id, and SNCF is fast moving to eliminate anonymous >>>>>> tickets. >>>>>> >>>>>> Eliminating cash would be the ultimate and fatal blow. >>>>>> >>>>>> Philippe >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> e 25/05/2017 à 15:01, J.C. DE MARTIN a écrit : >>>>>>> Yves Mersch (member of the Executive Board of the European Central Bank): >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /"If Europe were to abolish cash, it would cut off people?s only direct >>>>>>> link to central-bank money. In a democracy, such a link helps to foster >>>>>>> public acceptance of central-bank independence, by reinforcing the trust >>>>>>> and support of the people in the conduct of effective monetary >>>>>>> policymaking.// >>>>>>> // >>>>>>> //The ECB will continue to provide banknotes. We will also facilitate >>>>>>> the further development of an integrated, innovative, and competitive >>>>>>> market for retail payment solutions in the eurozone. If, one day, cash >>>>>>> is replaced by electronic means of payment, that decision should reflect >>>>>>> the will of the people, not the force of lobby groups."// >>>>>>> / >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Articolo completo: >>>>>>> https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/05/going-cashless-heres-why-it-wouldnt-… >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nexa mailing list >>>>>>> nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it >>>>>>> https://server-nexa.polito.it/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nexa >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nexa mailing list >>>> nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it <mailto:nexa@server-nexa.polito.it> >>>> https://server-nexa.polito.it/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nexa >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nexa mailing list >>> nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it >>> https://server-nexa.polito.it/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nexa >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nexa mailing list >> nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it >> https://server-nexa.polito.it/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nexa > > -- EN > > ===================================================================== > Prof. Enrico Nardelli > Dipartimento di Matematica - Universita' di Roma "Tor Vergata" > Via della Ricerca Scientifica snc - 00133 Roma > tel: +39 06 7259.4204 fax: +39 06 7259.4699 > mobile: +39 335 590.2331 e-mail: nardelli(a)mat.uniroma2.it > home page: http://www.mat.uniroma2.it/~nardelli > blog: http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/blog/enardelli/ > ===================================================================== > -- >

May 27, 2017

Re: [nexa] "A cashless Europe? The problem is that most people are against it"

by Enrico Nardelli

Stefano è vero che "la dimensione immateriale si allarga ad avvolgere praticamente in toto le nostre relazioni sociali ed economiche" però questa tendenza deve rimanere una possibilità e non un obbligo. Proprio perché in questo allargamento della dimensione immateriale si annida un attacco mortale alla democrazia, con la scusa dell'efficienza e del contrasto al crimine, So bene che è perfettamente possibile definire un'infrastruttura ad hoc per effettuare transazioni economiche o comunicazioni in modo da garantire l'anonimato. Ho però forti dubbi che chi ha da perdere nel garantire l'anonimato (ovvero chi ha il potere politico ed economico) acconsenta allo sviluppo e diffusione di un'infrastruttura di questo genere. Secondo me è importante essere pragmatici nel capire che i conflitti di interesse tra "classi" sono fisiologici nella società e ciò che va assolutamente evitato è che la tecnologia informatica, con la scusa della sicurezza, sia utilizzata per alterare questi conflitti a vantaggio di chi ha più potere. L'abolizione del contante sarebbe una mossa in questo senso, ripeto - non perché non sia tecnicamente possibile realizzarla mediante un'infrastruttura ad hoc che garantisca una moneta elettronica con le stesse funzioni del contante - ma perché questa possibile infrastruttura non diventerebbe mai una realtà, per semplici ragioni di potere. Non mi scandalizzo che chi ha il potere lo usi per mantenerlo ed allargarlo, ma non voglio contribuire al mio diventare schiavo. Truffe, riciclo e ricatti avvenivano anche prima dell'avvento di Internet e venivano contrastati. E se adesso li conduci via Internet ovviamente lasci tracce che possono essere usate per combatterli. Ciò che sarebbe mortale per la democrazia sarebbe costringere tutti all'uso degli strumenti digitali. Ciao, Enrico Il 26/05/2017 11:17, Stefano Quintarelli ha scritto: > ciao a tutti > se compro oggi una menorah, non voglio che quella informazione sia scolpita nel tempo ed un giorno (Dio non voglia) le mie figlie possano subire delle conseguenze negative (ad esempio) > pero' se truffo o riciclo o ricatto, deve essere possibile risalire a me. > penso ci siano due esigenze contrapposte che sono appunto il diritto all'anonimato ed la possibilità di imputare resposnabilità penali, in limiti stabiliti dalla legge. > man mano che la dimensione immateriale si allarga ad avvolgere praticamente in toto le nostre relazioni sociali ed economiche, i modelli tradizionali secondo me sono un po' alle corde. > ci sto riflettendo molto, e sto arrivando alla conclusione che sarebbe opportuno un framework ad hoc... > ciao, s. > > > On 26/05/2017 10:26, Antonio Vetrò wrote: >> In questo nostro survey abbiamo raccolto evidenza >> che la blockchain in realtà può garantire solo la pseudo-anonymity >> >> http://nexa.polito.it/node/1310 >> >> Un caro saluto >> >> Antonio >> >> >> >> -- >> Antonio Vetrò, Ph.D. >> Director of Research >> Nexa Center for Internet and Society >> DAUIN, Politecnico di Torino >> https://nexa.polito.it/people/avetro >> >> >>> On 26. May 2017, at 01:19, Giuseppe Attardi <attardi(a)di.unipi.it <mailto:attardi@di.unipi.it>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On 25 mag 2017, at 23:22, Giuseppe Attardi <attardi(a)di.unipi.it <mailto:attardi@di.unipi.it>> wrote: >>>> >>>> L’anonimato si può ottenere con le tecniche di blockchain. >>>> Comunque sia, cosa c’entra l’anonimato coi poteri totalitari? >>>> Ci sono norme per proteggere la privacy, che dovrebbero assicurare che l’accesso alle informazioni sia consentito. >>> >>> Intendevo “non sia consentito”. >>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>>> Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 16:53:57 +0200 >>>>> From: Philippe Aigrain <pa(a)laquadrature.net <mailto:pa@laquadrature.net>> >>>>> To: nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it <mailto:nexa@server-nexa.polito.it> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nexa] "A cashless Europe? The problem is that most >>>>> people are against it" >>>>> Message-ID: <f2843c33-a919-abf9-d90b-dddfccc7518e(a)laquadrature.net <mailto:f2843c33-a919-abf9-d90b-dddfccc7518e@laquadrature.net>> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >>>>> >>>>> Apart from the issues mentioned in the article, creating a cashless >>>>> society would be the ultimate step, after making impossible to >>>>> communicate and to travel anonymously, leading to a de facto >>>>> totalitarian regime. >>>>> >>>>> In my action in solidarity with young minors refugees, I was able to >>>>> experience directly how, today, someone who is denied its fundamental >>>>> rights recognized by law has no chance to ever find a way to challenge >>>>> this denial if s/he cannot: >>>>> >>>>> 1. communicate anonymously, i.e. at least have access to a SIM card and >>>>> the related subscription without providing an ID, >>>>> >>>>> 2. travel anonymously in particular by long distance train, i.e. buy a >>>>> ticket which is anonymous and not connected to an identity >>>>> >>>>> 3. get money through solidarity and spend it as cash. >>>>> >>>>> The first two conditions are at severe risk. For instance in France one >>>>> of the 2 companies providing pay mobile phones no longer accept to do it >>>>> without a proof of id, and SNCF is fast moving to eliminate anonymous >>>>> tickets. >>>>> >>>>> Eliminating cash would be the ultimate and fatal blow. >>>>> >>>>> Philippe >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> e 25/05/2017 à 15:01, J.C. DE MARTIN a écrit : >>>>>> Yves Mersch (member of the Executive Board of the European Central Bank): >>>>>> >>>>>> /"If Europe were to abolish cash, it would cut off people?s only direct >>>>>> link to central-bank money. In a democracy, such a link helps to foster >>>>>> public acceptance of central-bank independence, by reinforcing the trust >>>>>> and support of the people in the conduct of effective monetary >>>>>> policymaking.// >>>>>> // >>>>>> //The ECB will continue to provide banknotes. We will also facilitate >>>>>> the further development of an integrated, innovative, and competitive >>>>>> market for retail payment solutions in the eurozone. If, one day, cash >>>>>> is replaced by electronic means of payment, that decision should reflect >>>>>> the will of the people, not the force of lobby groups."// >>>>>> / >>>>>> >>>>>> Articolo completo: >>>>>> https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/05/going-cashless-heres-why-it-wouldnt-… >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nexa mailing list >>>>>> nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it >>>>>> https://server-nexa.polito.it/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nexa >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nexa mailing list >>> nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it <mailto:nexa@server-nexa.polito.it> >>> https://server-nexa.polito.it/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nexa >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nexa mailing list >> nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it >> https://server-nexa.polito.it/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nexa >> > _______________________________________________ > nexa mailing list > nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it > https://server-nexa.polito.it/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nexa -- EN ===================================================================== Prof. Enrico Nardelli Dipartimento di Matematica - Universita' di Roma "Tor Vergata" Via della Ricerca Scientifica snc - 00133 Roma tel: +39 06 7259.4204 fax: +39 06 7259.4699 mobile: +39 335 590.2331 e-mail: nardelli(a)mat.uniroma2.it home page: http://www.mat.uniroma2.it/~nardelli blog: http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/blog/enardelli/ ===================================================================== --

May 26, 2017

Re: [nexa] "Francesca Bria, l’italiana assessore a Barcellona: ecco come si crea valore con manifattura e innovazione"

by Fabio Pietrosanti (naif) - lists

E siamo stati molto felici anche di contribuire con il progetto di Whistleblowing Anticorruzione per la città di Barcellona con il progetto software OpenSource GlobaLeaks fatto dall'italiano Centro Hermes: https://ec.europa.eu/futurium/en/content/first-public-anti-corruption-compl… Speriamo che anche grandi città italiane come Milano, Torino e Roma seguano l'esempio di Barcellona dotandosi di whistleblowing anticorruzione opensource e con supporto per anonimato forte! On 5/26/17 11:58 AM, J.C. DE MARTIN wrote: > *Francesca Bria, l’italiana assessore a Barcellona: ecco come si crea > valore con manifattura e innovazione** > * > di Filippo Astone e Paolo Del Forno > > /Capoluogo della autonoma Catalogna, è una delle città più cosmopolite e > aperte che ci siano in Europa, ma soprattutto una delle più smart. > Nella giunta cittadina l’economista trentenne, che occupa un ruolo > chiave nei programmi di digitalizzazione dell’ Unione europea. Ecco la > sua strategia/ > > […] > > Continua qui: > http://www.industriaitaliana.it/francesca-bria-litaliana-assessore-a-barcel… > > > > _______________________________________________ > nexa mailing list > nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it > https://server-nexa.polito.it/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nexa > -- Fabio Pietrosanti (naif) HERMES - Center for Transparency and Digital Human Rights http://logioshermes.org - https://globaleaks.org - https://tor2web.org - https://ahmia.fi

May 26, 2017

"Francesca Bria, l’italiana assessore a Barcellona: ecco come si crea valore con manifattura e innovazione"

by J.C. DE MARTIN

*Francesca Bria, l’italiana assessore a Barcellona: ecco come si crea valore con manifattura e innovazione** * di Filippo Astone e Paolo Del Forno /Capoluogo della autonoma Catalogna, è una delle città più cosmopolite e aperte che ci siano in Europa, ma soprattutto una delle più smart. Nella giunta cittadina l’economista trentenne, che occupa un ruolo chiave nei programmi di digitalizzazione dell’ Unione europea. Ecco la sua strategia/ […] Continua qui: http://www.industriaitaliana.it/francesca-bria-litaliana-assessore-a-barcel…

May 26, 2017

Re: [nexa] "A cashless Europe? The problem is that most people are against it"

by Stefano Quintarelli

ciao a tutti se compro oggi una menorah, non voglio che quella informazione sia scolpita nel tempo ed un giorno (Dio non voglia) le mie figlie possano subire delle conseguenze negative (ad esempio) pero' se truffo o riciclo o ricatto, deve essere possibile risalire a me. penso ci siano due esigenze contrapposte che sono appunto il diritto all'anonimato ed la possibilità di imputare resposnabilità penali, in limiti stabiliti dalla legge. man mano che la dimensione immateriale si allarga ad avvolgere praticamente in toto le nostre relazioni sociali ed economiche, i modelli tradizionali secondo me sono un po' alle corde. ci sto riflettendo molto, e sto arrivando alla conclusione che sarebbe opportuno un framework ad hoc... ciao, s. On 26/05/2017 10:26, Antonio Vetrò wrote: > In questo nostro survey abbiamo raccolto evidenza > che la blockchain in realtà può garantire solo la pseudo-anonymity > > http://nexa.polito.it/node/1310 > > Un caro saluto > > Antonio > > > > -- > Antonio Vetrò, Ph.D. > Director of Research > Nexa Center for Internet and Society > DAUIN, Politecnico di Torino > https://nexa.polito.it/people/avetro > > >> On 26. May 2017, at 01:19, Giuseppe Attardi <attardi(a)di.unipi.it >> <mailto:attardi@di.unipi.it>> wrote: >> >> >>> On 25 mag 2017, at 23:22, Giuseppe Attardi <attardi(a)di.unipi.it >>> <mailto:attardi@di.unipi.it>> wrote: >>> >>> L’anonimato si può ottenere con le tecniche di blockchain. >>> Comunque sia, cosa c’entra l’anonimato coi poteri totalitari? >>> Ci sono norme per proteggere la privacy, che dovrebbero assicurare >>> che l’accesso alle informazioni sia consentito. >> >> Intendevo “non sia consentito”. >> >>> >>> -- >>> >>>> Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 16:53:57 +0200 >>>> From: Philippe Aigrain <pa(a)laquadrature.net >>>> <mailto:pa@laquadrature.net>> >>>> To: nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it <mailto:nexa@server-nexa.polito.it> >>>> Subject: Re: [nexa] "A cashless Europe? The problem is that most >>>> people are against it" >>>> Message-ID: <f2843c33-a919-abf9-d90b-dddfccc7518e(a)laquadrature.net >>>> <mailto:f2843c33-a919-abf9-d90b-dddfccc7518e@laquadrature.net>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >>>> >>>> Apart from the issues mentioned in the article, creating a cashless >>>> society would be the ultimate step, after making impossible to >>>> communicate and to travel anonymously, leading to a de facto >>>> totalitarian regime. >>>> >>>> In my action in solidarity with young minors refugees, I was able to >>>> experience directly how, today, someone who is denied its fundamental >>>> rights recognized by law has no chance to ever find a way to challenge >>>> this denial if s/he cannot: >>>> >>>> 1. communicate anonymously, i.e. at least have access to a SIM card and >>>> the related subscription without providing an ID, >>>> >>>> 2. travel anonymously in particular by long distance train, i.e. buy a >>>> ticket which is anonymous and not connected to an identity >>>> >>>> 3. get money through solidarity and spend it as cash. >>>> >>>> The first two conditions are at severe risk. For instance in France one >>>> of the 2 companies providing pay mobile phones no longer accept to do it >>>> without a proof of id, and SNCF is fast moving to eliminate anonymous >>>> tickets. >>>> >>>> Eliminating cash would be the ultimate and fatal blow. >>>> >>>> Philippe >>>> >>>> >>>> e 25/05/2017 à 15:01, J.C. DE MARTIN a écrit : >>>>> Yves Mersch (member of the Executive Board of the European Central >>>>> Bank): >>>>> >>>>> /"If Europe were to abolish cash, it would cut off people?s only direct >>>>> link to central-bank money. In a democracy, such a link helps to foster >>>>> public acceptance of central-bank independence, by reinforcing the >>>>> trust >>>>> and support of the people in the conduct of effective monetary >>>>> policymaking.// >>>>> // >>>>> //The ECB will continue to provide banknotes. We will also facilitate >>>>> the further development of an integrated, innovative, and competitive >>>>> market for retail payment solutions in the eurozone. If, one day, cash >>>>> is replaced by electronic means of payment, that decision should >>>>> reflect >>>>> the will of the people, not the force of lobby groups."// >>>>> / >>>>> >>>>> Articolo completo: >>>>> https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/05/going-cashless-heres-why-it-wouldnt-… >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nexa mailing list >>>>> nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it >>>>> https://server-nexa.polito.it/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nexa >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nexa mailing list >> nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it <mailto:nexa@server-nexa.polito.it> >> https://server-nexa.polito.it/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nexa > > > > _______________________________________________ > nexa mailing list > nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it > https://server-nexa.polito.it/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nexa >

May 26, 2017

Re: [nexa] "A cashless Europe? The problem is that most people are against it"

by Antonio Vetrò

In questo nostro survey abbiamo raccolto evidenza che la blockchain in realtà può garantire solo la pseudo-anonymity http://nexa.polito.it/node/1310 Un caro saluto Antonio -- Antonio Vetrò, Ph.D. Director of Research Nexa Center for Internet and Society DAUIN, Politecnico di Torino https://nexa.polito.it/people/avetro > On 26. May 2017, at 01:19, Giuseppe Attardi <attardi(a)di.unipi.it> wrote: > > >> On 25 mag 2017, at 23:22, Giuseppe Attardi <attardi(a)di.unipi.it> wrote: >> >> L’anonimato si può ottenere con le tecniche di blockchain. >> Comunque sia, cosa c’entra l’anonimato coi poteri totalitari? >> Ci sono norme per proteggere la privacy, che dovrebbero assicurare che l’accesso alle informazioni sia consentito. > > Intendevo “non sia consentito”. > >> >> -- >> >>> Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 16:53:57 +0200 >>> From: Philippe Aigrain <pa(a)laquadrature.net> >>> To: nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it >>> Subject: Re: [nexa] "A cashless Europe? The problem is that most >>> people are against it" >>> Message-ID: <f2843c33-a919-abf9-d90b-dddfccc7518e(a)laquadrature.net> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >>> >>> Apart from the issues mentioned in the article, creating a cashless >>> society would be the ultimate step, after making impossible to >>> communicate and to travel anonymously, leading to a de facto >>> totalitarian regime. >>> >>> In my action in solidarity with young minors refugees, I was able to >>> experience directly how, today, someone who is denied its fundamental >>> rights recognized by law has no chance to ever find a way to challenge >>> this denial if s/he cannot: >>> >>> 1. communicate anonymously, i.e. at least have access to a SIM card and >>> the related subscription without providing an ID, >>> >>> 2. travel anonymously in particular by long distance train, i.e. buy a >>> ticket which is anonymous and not connected to an identity >>> >>> 3. get money through solidarity and spend it as cash. >>> >>> The first two conditions are at severe risk. For instance in France one >>> of the 2 companies providing pay mobile phones no longer accept to do it >>> without a proof of id, and SNCF is fast moving to eliminate anonymous >>> tickets. >>> >>> Eliminating cash would be the ultimate and fatal blow. >>> >>> Philippe >>> >>> >>> e 25/05/2017 à 15:01, J.C. DE MARTIN a écrit : >>>> Yves Mersch (member of the Executive Board of the European Central Bank): >>>> >>>> /"If Europe were to abolish cash, it would cut off people?s only direct >>>> link to central-bank money. In a democracy, such a link helps to foster >>>> public acceptance of central-bank independence, by reinforcing the trust >>>> and support of the people in the conduct of effective monetary >>>> policymaking.// >>>> // >>>> //The ECB will continue to provide banknotes. We will also facilitate >>>> the further development of an integrated, innovative, and competitive >>>> market for retail payment solutions in the eurozone. If, one day, cash >>>> is replaced by electronic means of payment, that decision should reflect >>>> the will of the people, not the force of lobby groups."// >>>> / >>>> >>>> Articolo completo: >>>> https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/05/going-cashless-heres-why-it-wouldnt-… >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nexa mailing list >>>> nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it >>>> https://server-nexa.polito.it/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nexa >>>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nexa mailing list > nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it > https://server-nexa.polito.it/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nexa

May 26, 2017

Re: [nexa] "A cashless Europe? The problem is that most people are against it"

by Giuseppe Attardi

> On 25 mag 2017, at 23:22, Giuseppe Attardi <attardi(a)di.unipi.it> wrote: > > L’anonimato si può ottenere con le tecniche di blockchain. > Comunque sia, cosa c’entra l’anonimato coi poteri totalitari? > Ci sono norme per proteggere la privacy, che dovrebbero assicurare che l’accesso alle informazioni sia consentito. Intendevo “non sia consentito”. > > -- > >> Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 16:53:57 +0200 >> From: Philippe Aigrain <pa(a)laquadrature.net> >> To: nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it >> Subject: Re: [nexa] "A cashless Europe? The problem is that most >> people are against it" >> Message-ID: <f2843c33-a919-abf9-d90b-dddfccc7518e(a)laquadrature.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> Apart from the issues mentioned in the article, creating a cashless >> society would be the ultimate step, after making impossible to >> communicate and to travel anonymously, leading to a de facto >> totalitarian regime. >> >> In my action in solidarity with young minors refugees, I was able to >> experience directly how, today, someone who is denied its fundamental >> rights recognized by law has no chance to ever find a way to challenge >> this denial if s/he cannot: >> >> 1. communicate anonymously, i.e. at least have access to a SIM card and >> the related subscription without providing an ID, >> >> 2. travel anonymously in particular by long distance train, i.e. buy a >> ticket which is anonymous and not connected to an identity >> >> 3. get money through solidarity and spend it as cash. >> >> The first two conditions are at severe risk. For instance in France one >> of the 2 companies providing pay mobile phones no longer accept to do it >> without a proof of id, and SNCF is fast moving to eliminate anonymous >> tickets. >> >> Eliminating cash would be the ultimate and fatal blow. >> >> Philippe >> >> >> e 25/05/2017 à 15:01, J.C. DE MARTIN a écrit : >>> Yves Mersch (member of the Executive Board of the European Central Bank): >>> >>> /"If Europe were to abolish cash, it would cut off people?s only direct >>> link to central-bank money. In a democracy, such a link helps to foster >>> public acceptance of central-bank independence, by reinforcing the trust >>> and support of the people in the conduct of effective monetary >>> policymaking.// >>> // >>> //The ECB will continue to provide banknotes. We will also facilitate >>> the further development of an integrated, innovative, and competitive >>> market for retail payment solutions in the eurozone. If, one day, cash >>> is replaced by electronic means of payment, that decision should reflect >>> the will of the people, not the force of lobby groups."// >>> / >>> >>> Articolo completo: >>> https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/05/going-cashless-heres-why-it-wouldnt-… >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nexa mailing list >>> nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it >>> https://server-nexa.polito.it/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nexa >>> >> >

May 25, 2017

Re: [nexa] "A cashless Europe? The problem is that most people are against it"

by Giuseppe Attardi

L’anonimato si può ottenere con le tecniche di blockchain. Comunque sia, cosa c’entra l’anonimato coi poteri totalitari? Ci sono norme per proteggere la privacy, che dovrebbero assicurare che l’accesso alle informazioni sia consentito. -- > Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 16:53:57 +0200 > From: Philippe Aigrain <pa(a)laquadrature.net> > To: nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it > Subject: Re: [nexa] "A cashless Europe? The problem is that most > people are against it" > Message-ID: <f2843c33-a919-abf9-d90b-dddfccc7518e(a)laquadrature.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Apart from the issues mentioned in the article, creating a cashless > society would be the ultimate step, after making impossible to > communicate and to travel anonymously, leading to a de facto > totalitarian regime. > > In my action in solidarity with young minors refugees, I was able to > experience directly how, today, someone who is denied its fundamental > rights recognized by law has no chance to ever find a way to challenge > this denial if s/he cannot: > > 1. communicate anonymously, i.e. at least have access to a SIM card and > the related subscription without providing an ID, > > 2. travel anonymously in particular by long distance train, i.e. buy a > ticket which is anonymous and not connected to an identity > > 3. get money through solidarity and spend it as cash. > > The first two conditions are at severe risk. For instance in France one > of the 2 companies providing pay mobile phones no longer accept to do it > without a proof of id, and SNCF is fast moving to eliminate anonymous > tickets. > > Eliminating cash would be the ultimate and fatal blow. > > Philippe > > > e 25/05/2017 à 15:01, J.C. DE MARTIN a écrit : >> Yves Mersch (member of the Executive Board of the European Central Bank): >> >> /"If Europe were to abolish cash, it would cut off people?s only direct >> link to central-bank money. In a democracy, such a link helps to foster >> public acceptance of central-bank independence, by reinforcing the trust >> and support of the people in the conduct of effective monetary >> policymaking.// >> // >> //The ECB will continue to provide banknotes. We will also facilitate >> the further development of an integrated, innovative, and competitive >> market for retail payment solutions in the eurozone. If, one day, cash >> is replaced by electronic means of payment, that decision should reflect >> the will of the people, not the force of lobby groups."// >> / >> >> Articolo completo: >> https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/05/going-cashless-heres-why-it-wouldnt-… >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nexa mailing list >> nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it >> https://server-nexa.polito.it/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nexa >> >

May 25, 2017

L'Open Data per gli obiettivi di sviluppo sostenibile | Bocconi, 26 maggio

by Aura Bertoni

Cari amici della lista Nexa, nell'ambito del Festival per lo Sviluppo Sostenibile 2017 promosso da ASviS, l'agenda italiana per gli obiettivi di sviluppo sostenibile delle Nazioni Unite, domani ci saranno due incontri organizzati presso lo spazio openside dal centro ASK Bocconi, in collaborazione con Bocconi Arts Campus, dedicati agli open data. Beyond digitisation: the (re)use of open cultural data, è il titolo dell’evento della mattina che offrirà una panoramica del fenomeno open data nel settore della cultura. Nel pomeriggio, dalle 14.30, Open data: trasparenza, partecipazione civica e crescita sostenibile, esplorerà invece le potenzialità dei dati aperti per la definizione di politiche e servizi pubblici, per aumentare la trasparenza, per creare nuovi spazi di partecipazione e per sostenere la creazione di nuovi servizi digitali, imprese e innovazione. Vi allego il programma. Vi aspettiamo! Aura Aura Bertoni, PhD, LLM Bocconi University ASK Research Centre Via Roentgen 1 20136 Milan Italy +39 02 5836 5771 Room 4-a1-02 --- Dai il tuo 5x1000 alla Bocconi. Aiuta gli studenti meritevoli a costruire il proprio futuro. CF 80024610158. www.unibocconi.it/5x1000 Please note that the above message is addressed only to individuals filing Italian income tax returns. 5x1000 is a percentage of Italian personal income tax that taxpayers can allocate to Universities, scientific research and non profit organizations. ---

May 25, 2017

Re: [nexa] "A cashless Europe? The problem is that most people are against it"

by Alberto Cammozzo

A questo proposito: ben fatta l'infografica di visualcapitalist.com <http://www.visualcapitalist.com/global-war-cash/> ciao, A On 25/05/2017 15:01, J.C. DE MARTIN wrote: > Yves Mersch (member of the Executive Board of the European Central Bank): > > /"If Europe were to abolish cash, it would cut off people’s only > direct link to central-bank money. In a democracy, such a link helps > to foster public acceptance of central-bank independence, by > reinforcing the trust and support of the people in the conduct of > effective monetary policymaking.// > // > //The ECB will continue to provide banknotes. We will also facilitate > the further development of an integrated, innovative, and competitive > market for retail payment solutions in the eurozone. If, one day, cash > is replaced by electronic means of payment, that decision should > reflect the will of the people, not the force of lobby groups."// > / > > Articolo completo: > https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/05/going-cashless-heres-why-it-wouldnt-… > > > _______________________________________________ > nexa mailing list > nexa(a)server-nexa.polito.it > https://server-nexa.polito.it/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nexa

May 25, 2017