Re: [nexa] EDRI-GRAM: The French Government wants to spy on
Juan Carlos, mi sfugge una cosa, relativa alla prima parte della notizia. Supponendo ovviamente che NON SPARISCA la figura del magistrato di sorveglianza che deve autorizzare l'operazione (se cambia l'ordinamento della giustizia il discorso può essere del tutto diverso...), in cosa si differenzierebbe questa intercettazione Internet da una classica intercettazione telefonica in uso da sempre? Ciao Gian Paolo -----Original Message----- From: nexa-bounces@server-nexa.polito.it [mailto:nexa-bounces@server-nexa.polito.it] On Behalf Of nexa-request@server-nexa.polito.it Sent: mercoledì 3 giugno 2009 12.00 To: nexa@server-nexa.polito.it Subject: nexa Digest, Vol 2, Issue 1 Send nexa mailing list submissions to nexa@server-nexa.polito.it To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://server-nexa.polito.it/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nexa or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nexa-request@server-nexa.polito.it You can reach the person managing the list at nexa-owner@server-nexa.polito.it When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nexa digest..." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 08:59:52 +0200 From: "J.C. DE MARTIN" <demartin@polito.it> Subject: [nexa] EDRI-GRAM: The French Government wants to spy on electronic communications To: nexa@server-nexa.polito.it Message-ID: <4A261F68.5070003@polito.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed E pensare che ho avuto paura di venire preso per paranoico quando ho sospettato che il vero obiettivo di HADOPI fosse la sorveglienza di massa. jc ============================================================ 1. The French Government wants to spy on electronic communications ============================================================ On 27 May 2009, the law on orientation and programming for the performance of the domestic security (Loppsi) was presented by Mich?le Alliot-Marie to the French Council of Ministers. The law will give the French police the possibility to physically or remotely install spying software to listen to electronic communications and introduces the Internet filtering by administrative decision. According to the text, the Criminal Investigation Police will be allowed to place on a suspect's computer a sort of internal or external USB key which will send data to the computers of the authorities. The police may also remotely install Trojans which will give access to all the data in a computer in real time. The police will be allowed to make use of these tools only in "the most severe cases" which however include "support given to the illegal entry and residence of a foreigner". Under the control of an examining magistrate (juge d'instruction), the investigating authority will have to justify the use of the technique by declaring the infringement investigated, the place where the investigation will take place and its duration. The spyware can be installed for a four-month period that can be renewed once. The examining magistrate's control would be a positive thing as the examining magistrates are independent from the Ministry of Justice and are free to take decisions, in terms of the gravity of the investigation. However, if the justice reform project of the French Government comes into being, the examining magistrates will disappear which means that the responsibility to authorize spyware will come to the prosecutor of the Republic. The law also obliges ISPs to block access, "without delay", to sites included on a list drafted under the authority of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. The list will not be made public and therefore it will be impossible to contest and this will create the risk of abuses. In order to prevent contestations, for the beginning, the law will target the paedophilic contents with the declared purpose to "protect the Internet users from child pornography images". The operators will have to introduce in their network software that will stop any connection to sites having a pedophile character that will be listed by the police. The French Government will always be able to extend the target by a simple decree. The text also stipulates severe sanctions for the ISPs that do not observe the law providing a fine up to 75 000 euro and a year of imprisonment. Loppsi : the sneaks under the authority of an endangered judge (only in French, 25.05.2009) http://www.numerama.com/magazine/12976-Loppsi-les-mouchards-sous-l-autorite-... Loppsi wants to "protect the Internet users" by filtering (only in French, 27.05.2009) http://www.numerama.com/magazine/13010-La-Loppsi-veut-proteger-les-internaut... The police will be able to pirate the computers of the yobs (only in French, 25.05.2009) http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2009/05/24/01016-20090524ARTFIG00098... Loppsi: ISPs will have to "block access without delay" (MAJ) (only in French, 27.05.2009) http://www.numerama.com/magazine/13004-Loppsi-les-FAI-devront-empecher-l-acc... Loppsi presented this Wednesday in the Council of Ministers (MAJ) (only in French, 27.05.2009) http://www.numerama.com/magazine/13002-La-Loppsi-presentee-ce-mercredi-en-co... Draft law on the orientation and programming for the performance of the domestic security http://static.pcinpact.com/pdf/Loppsi_projet_loi.pdf Decrypting: Sarkozy and his work of controlling the Internet (only in French, 20.05.2009) http://www.numerama.com/magazine/12948-Decryptage-Sarkozy-et-son-oeuvre-de-c... Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione, Grazie. This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks.
As you point out, regarding the distant interception of communication, the key issue lies in the judiciary a priori authorization. However, there are other points in the LOPPSI2 proposal that raise other types of concerns, in particular the compulsory filtering of entire sites based a list that is kept secret. More generally there is a met-problem, well outlined in the Lambrinidis report in teh EP : we must get people to keep thinking even when they hear words such as paedophilia, nazi or terrorism. Philippe Aigrain Le mercredi 3 juin 2009, Balboni Gian Paolo a écrit :
Juan Carlos, mi sfugge una cosa, relativa alla prima parte della notizia. Supponendo ovviamente che NON SPARISCA la figura del magistrato di sorveglianza che deve autorizzare l'operazione (se cambia l'ordinamento della giustizia il discorso può essere del tutto diverso...), in cosa si differenzierebbe questa intercettazione Internet da una classica intercettazione telefonica in uso da sempre? Ciao
Gian Paolo
-----Original Message----- From: nexa-bounces@server-nexa.polito.it [mailto:nexa-bounces@server-nexa.polito.it] On Behalf Of nexa-request@server-nexa.polito.it Sent: mercoledì 3 giugno 2009 12.00 To: nexa@server-nexa.polito.it Subject: nexa Digest, Vol 2, Issue 1
Send nexa mailing list submissions to nexa@server-nexa.polito.it
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nexa digest..."
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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 08:59:52 +0200 From: "J.C. DE MARTIN" <demartin@polito.it> Subject: [nexa] EDRI-GRAM: The French Government wants to spy on electronic communications To: nexa@server-nexa.polito.it Message-ID: <4A261F68.5070003@polito.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
E pensare che ho avuto paura di venire preso per paranoico quando ho sospettato che il vero obiettivo di HADOPI fosse la sorveglienza di massa.
jc
============================================================ 1. The French Government wants to spy on electronic communications ============================================================
On 27 May 2009, the law on orientation and programming for the performance of the domestic security (Loppsi) was presented by Mich?le Alliot-Marie to the French Council of Ministers.
The law will give the French police the possibility to physically or remotely install spying software to listen to electronic communications and introduces the Internet filtering by administrative decision.
According to the text, the Criminal Investigation Police will be allowed to place on a suspect's computer a sort of internal or external USB key which will send data to the computers of the authorities. The police may also remotely install Trojans which will give access to all the data in a computer in real time.
The police will be allowed to make use of these tools only in "the most severe cases" which however include "support given to the illegal entry and residence of a foreigner". Under the control of an examining magistrate (juge d'instruction), the investigating authority will have to justify the use of the technique by declaring the infringement investigated, the place where the investigation will take place and its duration. The spyware can be installed for a four-month period that can be renewed once.
The examining magistrate's control would be a positive thing as the examining magistrates are independent from the Ministry of Justice and are free to take decisions, in terms of the gravity of the investigation. However, if the justice reform project of the French Government comes into being, the examining magistrates will disappear which means that the responsibility to authorize spyware will come to the prosecutor of the Republic.
The law also obliges ISPs to block access, "without delay", to sites included on a list drafted under the authority of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. The list will not be made public and therefore it will be impossible to contest and this will create the risk of abuses.
In order to prevent contestations, for the beginning, the law will target the paedophilic contents with the declared purpose to "protect the Internet users from child pornography images". The operators will have to introduce in their network software that will stop any connection to sites having a pedophile character that will be listed by the police. The French Government will always be able to extend the target by a simple decree.
The text also stipulates severe sanctions for the ISPs that do not observe the law providing a fine up to 75 000 euro and a year of imprisonment.
Loppsi : the sneaks under the authority of an endangered judge (only in French, 25.05.2009) http://www.numerama.com/magazine/12976-Loppsi-les-mouchards-sous-l-autorite -d-un-juge-en-voie-de-disparition.html
Loppsi wants to "protect the Internet users" by filtering (only in French, 27.05.2009) http://www.numerama.com/magazine/13010-La-Loppsi-veut-proteger-les-internau tes-avec-le-filtrage.html
The police will be able to pirate the computers of the yobs (only in French, 25.05.2009) http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2009/05/24/01016-20090524ARTFIG0009 8-la-police-va-pouvoir-pirater-les-ordinateurs-des-voyous-.php
Loppsi: ISPs will have to "block access without delay" (MAJ) (only in French, 27.05.2009) http://www.numerama.com/magazine/13004-Loppsi-les-FAI-devront-empecher-l-ac ces-sans-delai-MAJ.html
Loppsi presented this Wednesday in the Council of Ministers (MAJ) (only in French, 27.05.2009) http://www.numerama.com/magazine/13002-La-Loppsi-presentee-ce-mercredi-en-c onseil-des-ministres.html
Draft law on the orientation and programming for the performance of the domestic security http://static.pcinpact.com/pdf/Loppsi_projet_loi.pdf
Decrypting: Sarkozy and his work of controlling the Internet (only in French, 20.05.2009) http://www.numerama.com/magazine/12948-Decryptage-Sarkozy-et-son-oeuvre-de- controle-du-net.html
Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione, Grazie.
This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks.
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-- Philippe Aigrain Directeur, Sopinspace, Société pour les espaces publics d'information 4, passage de la Main d'Or, F-75011 Paris, France Tel : +33 (0)1 55 28 37 65 - Fax : +33 (0)1 55 28 37 69 philippe.aigrain@sopinspace.com - http://www.sopinspace.com -- SARL Sopinspace, Société pour les espaces publics d'information RCS 451 436 604 - SIRET 451 436 604 00016 - APE 6202A
"philippe" == Philippe Aigrain <philippe.aigrain@sopinspace.com> writes:
> As you point out, regarding the distant interception of > communication, the key issue lies in the judiciary a priori > authorization. However, there are other points in the LOPPSI2 > proposal that raise other types of concerns, in particular the > compulsory filtering of entire sites based a list that is kept > secret. Segnalo che in Italia una lista del genere noi ce l'abbiamo da tempo: Legge 6 2006, n. 38 ("Disposizioni in materia di lotta contro lo sfruttamento sessuale dei bambini e la pedopornografia anche a mezzo Internet" (http://www.camera.it/parlam/leggi/06038l.htm). In Italia si blocca anche la cosiddetta "pornografia virtuale", ovvero le "immagini realizzate con tecniche di elaborazione grafica non associate in tutto o in parte a situazioni reali, la cui qualità di rappresentazione fa apparire come vere situazioni non reali" - non commento. Siamo arrivati primi! :) Segnalo anche le recenti conclusioni della riunioni dei ministri degli interni e della giustizia del G8: "Riteniamo, in particolare, che si debba considerare la possibilità di adottare misure aggressive quali la creazione di una blacklist di siti pedopornografici, finalizzata ad ostacolare la navigazione verso siti pedofili, e/o denuncia da parte dei provider dei servizi Internet, in conformità con i diversi sistemi giuridici. Tale blacklist potrebbe essere gestita da organizzazioni internazionali ed anche aggiornata e divulgata, quindi adattata, ove necessario, ed implementata dalle competenti organizzazioni a livello nazionale." Ciao, -- Andrea Glorioso || http://people.digitalpolicy.it/sama/cv/ M: +32-488-409-055 F: +39-051-930-31-133 * Le opinioni espresse in questa mail sono del tutto personali * * The opinions expressed here are absolutely personal * "Constitutions represent the deliberate judgment of the people as to the provisions and restraints which [...] will secure to each citizen the greatest liberty and utmost protection. They are rules proscribed by Philip sober to control Philip drunk." David J. Brewer (1893) An Independent Judiciary as the Salvation of the Nation
in realta' ad una riunione dei ministri dell'interno europei di 23 anni fa, ricordo di avere letto, si raccomandava gia' cio' ed anche la Pisanu per il wifi. invito a leggere questo saggio http://is.gd/O4lV ciao, s. Andrea Glorioso wrote:
"philippe" == Philippe Aigrain <philippe.aigrain@sopinspace.com> writes:
> As you point out, regarding the distant interception of > communication, the key issue lies in the judiciary a priori > authorization. However, there are other points in the LOPPSI2 > proposal that raise other types of concerns, in particular the > compulsory filtering of entire sites based a list that is kept > secret.
Segnalo che in Italia una lista del genere noi ce l'abbiamo da tempo:
Legge 6 2006, n. 38 ("Disposizioni in materia di lotta contro lo sfruttamento sessuale dei bambini e la pedopornografia anche a mezzo Internet" (http://www.camera.it/parlam/leggi/06038l.htm).
In Italia si blocca anche la cosiddetta "pornografia virtuale", ovvero le "immagini realizzate con tecniche di elaborazione grafica non associate in tutto o in parte a situazioni reali, la cui qualità di rappresentazione fa apparire come vere situazioni non reali" - non commento.
Siamo arrivati primi! :)
Segnalo anche le recenti conclusioni della riunioni dei ministri degli interni e della giustizia del G8:
"Riteniamo, in particolare, che si debba considerare la possibilità di adottare misure aggressive quali la creazione di una blacklist di siti pedopornografici, finalizzata ad ostacolare la navigazione verso siti pedofili, e/o denuncia da parte dei provider dei servizi Internet, in conformità con i diversi sistemi giuridici. Tale blacklist potrebbe essere gestita da organizzazioni internazionali ed anche aggiornata e divulgata, quindi adattata, ove necessario, ed implementata dalle competenti organizzazioni a livello nazionale."
Ciao,
-- Andrea Glorioso || http://people.digitalpolicy.it/sama/cv/ M: +32-488-409-055 F: +39-051-930-31-133 * Le opinioni espresse in questa mail sono del tutto personali * * The opinions expressed here are absolutely personal *
"Constitutions represent the deliberate judgment of the people as to the provisions and restraints which [...] will secure to each citizen the greatest liberty and utmost protection. They are rules proscribed by Philip sober to control Philip drunk." David J. Brewer (1893) An Independent Judiciary as the Salvation of the Nation
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participants (4)
-
Andrea Glorioso -
Balboni Gian Paolo -
Philippe Aigrain -
Stefano Quintarelli