Grazie della segnalazione Alberto. Una vicenda drammatica, dovuta all'ignoranza informatica diffusa On April 25, 2021 7:38:38 AM UTC, Alberto Cammozzo via nexa wrote:

<https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/23/22399721/uk-post-office-software-bug-crim...>

For the past 20 years UK Post Office employees have been dealing with a piece of software called Horizon, which had a fatal flaw: bugs that made it look like employees stole tens of thousands of British pounds. This led to some local postmasters being convicted of crimes, even being sent to prison, because the Post Office doggedly insisted the software could be trusted.

Mai. Nel caso di automatismi complessi la probabilità che funzionino correttamente decresce esponenzialmente con il numero di componenti di cui sono costituti. È dunque ragionevole NON fidarsi mai del software e presumere la sua "colpevolezza" fino a prova contraria, invertendo l'onere della prova sul produttore/distributore. Interessante osservare come in questo caso si usi correttamente il termine "software" invece dell'astratto "algorithm". Il risultato però è lo stesso: coloro che hanno venduto il software vengono schermati dalle responsabilità rispetto ai danni irreparabili che questi hanno causato.

The impact on these employees has been vast: according to the BBC, some have lost marriages or time with their children. Talking to the BBC, Janet Skinner said that she was taken away from her two kids for nine months when she was imprisoned, after the software showed a £59,000 shortfall. She also says she lost a job offer because of her criminal conviction. The time she and others like her spent in jail can’t be bought back, and it happened because software was taken at its word.

According to the BBC, another woman, who swore she was innocent, was sent to prison for theft while she was pregnant. One man reportedly died by suicide after the computer system showed that he had lost almost £100,000. Within a few months, his replacement also faced losses due to discrepancies from the software.

Ed immaginate che impatto avrebbero questi bug in una società con un social credit score. Immaginate cosa accadrebbe se la creazione di questi software fosse affidata o riconducibile ad un governo. Giacomo

Buongiorno, Alberto Cammozzo via nexa <nexa@server-nexa.polito.it> writes:

<https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/23/22399721/uk-post-office-software-bug-crim...>

For the past 20 years UK Post Office employees have been dealing with a piece of software called Horizon, which had a fatal flaw: bugs that made it look like employees stole tens of thousands of British pounds. This led to some local postmasters being convicted of crimes, even being sent to prison, because the Post Office doggedly insisted the software could be trusted. After fighting for decades, 39 people are finally having their convictions overturned, after what is reportedly the largest miscarriage of justice that the UK has ever seen.

[...] grazie della segnalazione, ignoravo la vicenda nonostante la sua importanza epocale e me ne vergogno. Come al solito Wikipedia ci viene in aiuto con un discreto sunto dei punti salienti della vicenda: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_(IT_system) --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- Horizon was introduced in 2000, and from then onwards unexplained discrepancies and losses began to be reported by sub-postmasters. The Post Office maintained that Horizon was "robust" and that none of the shortfalls or discrepancies in sub-postmasters' branch accounts were due to problems caused by Horizon. Sub-postmasters unwilling or unable to make good the shortfalls were sometimes prosecuted (by the Post Office's in-house prosecution team) for theft, false accounting and/or fraud. This was done on IT evidence alone, without proof of criminal intent. Despite this, some sub-postmasters were successfully persuaded by their own solicitors to plead guilty to false accounting, on being told the Post Office would drop theft charges. Once the Post Office had a criminal conviction, it would attempt to secure a Proceeds of Crime Act Order against convicted sub-postmasters, allowing it to seize their assets and bankrupt them. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- (ovviamente l'intero articolo di Wikipedia con i riferimenti merita di essere letto) La notizia in oggetto, quindi, è in realtà l'inizio della /meritata/ fine di una dolorosissima vicenda iniziata nel 1999: no, non avete letto male: https://www.postofficetrial.com/2020/05/post-office-reviewing-900-prosecutio... --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- From the limited information which was publicly available we knew the Post Office had prosecuted dozens of people a year from 2005 to 2013. No one outside the Post Office had any idea, until now, it had prosecuted 900 Subpostmasters and counter staff since 1999. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Il sito https://www.postofficetrial.com/ è curato da un giornalista freelance britannico e contiene una valanga di materiale per chi volesse approfondire la complessa vicenda, compresi gli accordi extragiudiziali [1] e la collusione dell'associzione nazionale dei subpostmaster (AFAIU un sindacato) con il Post Office [2] per tentare di mettere tutto a tacere. Io, comunque, *voglio* sapere /quali/ sono stati i bug... cercherò se le sentenze lo dicono ma è DOVEROSO che queste cose vengano esposte trasparentemente. Dulcis in fundo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_(IT_system)#Replacement --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- «In April 2021 Post Office Chief Executive Nick Read announced that the Horizon system will be replaced with a new cloud-based IT system.» --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Trogloditi. Saluti, Giovanni. [1] https://www.postofficetrial.com/2021/04/settlement-disagreement.html [2] https://www.postofficetrial.com/2019/04/common-issues-trial-judgment-nfsp.ht... -- Giovanni Biscuolo Noi, incompetenti come siamo, non abbiamo alcun titolo per suggerire alcunché.